ATTENTION! YOUNG COSMOS HAS MOVED!

Salvador

Yes, I’ve read a couple of sceptic sites on the stones (and figurines) but kept on looking until I found the two I’ve linked to above which, from memory, both include articles by Dennis Swift.

The reason I kept on looking was that the hoax story seemed implausible. There are too many of the stones and they are too well carved – too finely detailed – for one man to have produced them in that quantity over the period in which he was supposed to have been working. I’ve studied fine art and done a bit of sculpting in soft materials like plaster of paris and wood so I’m not inclined to believe that anyone could produce one of these stone objects, even using a dentist’s drill, in just a few hours, and particularly not if the person has had no training or previous experience in drawing and design.

You both now have admin privileges here. Consider yourselves joint owners of the site with me.

Feel free to start a thread on the dinosaur issue.

I would hope this thread can focus on the geneology issue. That will make the discussion more orderly for our readers.

regards,
Salvador

Am I the only one whose smoke detector goes off with this statement? What, after all, is the examination of a single stone supposed to prove? Those who believe the stones genuine are aware that some are, in fact, of modern origin–so this isn’t a revelation.

I’ve just viewed the creationontheweb.com page, and there’s an Editor’s note after this footnote: “Footnote 17 of this article declared the Ica stones to be definitely fraudulent and a person associated with them (now deceased) as ‘unscrupulous’. However, as some reminded us, and we accept, this is an inappropriately sweeping judgment to make merely because one or a few were carved modern day hoaxes. While we would not advise using them as an apologetic evidence until the matter is fully investigated in the creationist technical literature, we apologize unreservedly for any distress caused by this footnote.” This from December 2003.

I happen to have a book about these stones, by, I believe, Dennis Swift. He discusses the differences between the modern stones and ones that appear to be ancient. He talks about the two categories and compares examinations of each under high magnification. He also examines the claims of the local artists and explains why it would be in their best interest to say that they had carved the stones themselves.

I thank you all for the highly informative discussion. It is heartwarming to see how we can all gather and assist each other in the search for truth. After reading the articles which you all have provided, I often go home thanking the Lord that his grace and revelation pour upon us…

I appreciate the skepticism expressed over various questions. This is a good thing…

With respect to the geneologies, here is a daring empirical claim, subject to scientific investigations.

Technically speaking, we really haven’t sequenced the human genome, we’ve only taken a sampling of some individuals. With the advent of Solexa technology (sequencing an entire persons genome for $3,000 versus $3,000,000,000), we may be at the point 20 years from now where we might be able to independently verify the geneology of Japheth and all of Noah’s sons. We can do this when we have thousands if not milliions or even billions of human genomes sequenced.

I believe the Intelligent Designer has delighted to conceal this marvelous truth for generations until the latter days for us to discover! He has ordained history and world events such that the physical evidence will bear witness to the creator of all history….. This is consistent with the Privileged Planet hypothesis.

“It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, it is the glory of kings to search out a matter.” Proverbs 25:2

There are exciting days ahead for the creationists! It is by God’s providence we have the records which Bill Cooper and others have discovered. That was by design!

“Unfortunately, some initially plausible evidences for man’s contemporaneity with dinosaurs have later turned out to be mistaken. The controversial ‘Ica stones’—allegedly genuine pre-Inca engravings of dinosaurs from Peru—have since been shown to be a fraud. Creation 24(2) featured these with the cautionary label, ‘Too good to be true?’ In fact, it turns out that an unscrupulous Peruvian surgeon had purchased the stones from a local artist and installed them in his museum, claiming them to be ancient artefacts; the artist himself makes these stones for tourists and never claims them to be ancient. The Institute of Geological Sciences in London has since examined one of the stones and confirmed its modern origin. The fraud was exposed on a Nova television documentary in 2002, entitled ‘The Case of the Ancient Astronauts’. ”

See here: http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/133#r17

(see footnote # 17).

Um, actually what I’ve read online about the Ica stones and Acambro figurines have me pretty much convinced that they are a hoax. This doesn’t mean that I necessarily discount the idea that dinosaurs lived contemporaneously with humans (after all, just the existence of “dragon” traditions is somewhat persuasive), but I question this particular piece of evidence. It appears that there is a lot of incentive for locals in the area to manufacturer fraudulent figurines to sell to “rich” (by their standards) and gullible tourists. I’m not a researcher on the subject, so my opinion is not authoritative. But as a lay reader in the peanut gallery, this is my immpression.

Have you considered the criticisms of the Ica stones/Acambro figurines? How would you answer them?

I look forward to getting some time to read the online book linked to here. It looks interesting.

I also think, from reading the reports linked to from these pages, concerning the attitudes of labs involved in dating studies of these artefacts, that SCheesman’s statement at UD (”I’ve worked with people involved with this, and they are very careful, conservative scientists with no agenda”), though no doubt correct to the best of his knowledge, is probably naive. There are a multitude of reasons (related to becoming rich and successful in this world) why those desiring to become rich and successful in this world might choose to suppress or ignore facts that could hinder them in their effort to become rich and successful in this world. Shall I mention Guillermo Gonzalez?

But in relation to the genealogies I haven’t found anything that seriously disputes Cooper’s thesis that he hasn’t dealt with in his book. There is the paper trail. We’re all descended from Noah. Just like the Bible says.